Commissioner Margarette May Macaulay, President of the Inter-American Commission on Human Rights (IACHR), spoke to the Herald during a visit to Argentina, Paraguay and Uruguay earlier this month as part of her role as commissioner rapporteur on the rights of persons of African descent and against racial discrimination.

Macaulay is from Jamaica, where she works as a lawyer and is a mediator for the Supreme Court. She is currently serving her second term on the IACHR, and was a judge on the Inter-American Court of Human Rights from 2007-2012. She has been recognized by the United Nations as a notable women’s rights advocate, earning a place on the Gender Justice Legacy Wall.

Could you tell me about the situation here that motivated this visit?

We had been informed that afro-descendants’ rights – first of all, that afro-descendants are still invisible in Argentina. This means their entitlement to enjoy human rights like all others equally in Argentina, are not being respected. The human rights of the global system and the inter-American system, which appear in our Inter-American Convention of Human Rights and which have been articulated by the Inter-American Commission in its almost 70 years of existence, as well as the court in its 50 years or so, are not being implemented for them, or for Indigenous peoples. 

We, my rapporteurship, foster and push for the ratification of the inter-American convention against racism, racial discrimination, and all such forms of intolerance, which is vital to ensuring racial equality and equity among people in all countries of the region.

What activities have you undertaken during your trip and what are the situations you’ve been focusing on?

Well, this trip was interesting because we had to visit three states [Argentina, Paraguay and Uruguay] within a week, so it was really a satellite kind of visit. We have met with government officials and civil society representatives from peoples of African descent and some indigenous persons. We’ve had high-level dialog with high-level authorities in government. All based on the fact that we needed to get their input as to what they have been doing, what they find challenging, and what they’re still hoping to achieve.

Could you give me a sensation of the concerns they have transmitted to you? I’m aware that the human rights group CELS has focused on the rights of Senegalese migrants who often face police violence here, for instance.

That was mentioned to us, indeed not only by CELS but also by INADI. INADI informed us because you have a particular government official for immigrants, refugees, asylum seekers, and he did mention the Senegalese. I didn’t realize there were so many Senegalese coming here. It’s rather a long way  to come, and I did ask him by what means they got here. He said they enter the country by land. It’s a very dangerous way of doing it. From different places, but mostly from Brazil, as well as Guyana and Uruguay. 

They are generally speaking irregular [migrants] and they become street sellers of items, which is also a difficult situation for them to be in, because most countries do not just permit

selling on the streets. It’s a problem to provide them safe shelters, social provisions for health and this sort of thing, which they would be entitled to enjoy if they had entered in a regular way, so they’re still fighting, you know, struggling with that.

There’s also a large Dominican and Haitian community here.

Yes, from both sides of that island [Hispaniola]. So Haitians, we know it’s a problem for almost every country in the region. They are in a very concerning situation at this time. We’re very concerned about the status and survival of Haiti as a state. I know the Caribbean, CARICOM countries, are now taking on the issue of meeting, discussing and seeing how they as a subregion can help.

What has Argentina been doing to help Haitians in the face of the very difficult social, political and human rights situation in their country? 

We didn’t get any information, really. Haitians are a group that has not really been addressed much by Argentina. They did say that some Haitians were here, but nothing further. But I do know that all members of the OAS have been involved in discussions relating to future steps for Haiti, to see that it recovers from this terrible situation.

What are the most concerning takeaways from your time here?

Quite frankly, I didn’t realize – I mean, sometimes you have information, but the reality of it doesn’t hit you – I was hit by the fact that there’s a possible change of government in the next elections, I think the primaries start in August. So by the end of the year, there may be a new regime which might not continue the human rights agenda, which so far Argentina has been moving with. That would be very sad because Argentina does have a reputation, since the dictatorship went out the window, of seeking to assure and ensure for its citizens the enjoyment of human rights, and they have ratified several instruments and committed to us that they will be ratifying the Racism and Racial Discrimination Convention. I am hoping that they will have time to do so before there is a change of regime, if there is one.

What specific issues did you pick up that indigenous communities face here?

One of the issues highlighted to us was that they were being invisibilized even more than the afro-descendant population, especially Mapuches. They are in serious jeopardy in every facet, every way. Whilst you might have the afro-descendants here being profiled and locked up by the police, they have difficulties in the labor market, difficulties in getting proper health services, and difficulties to be fully and properly educated in the educational system and so on, indigenous persons have those problems, as well as displacements from their places of residence, and even private corporations are also a danger to their settled life and their enjoyment of rights. 

In addition to all this they, as the original peoples, are losing their lands, their territories, which they have been entitled to and have occupied from time immemorial. So they are in a worse situation, and their lives are in jeopardy. Too many of their defenders are killed, injured in some way, or criminalized.

In both groups, of course, their women are in danger of abuse of every kind, sexual abuse as well. Religion and religious practices for both groups were mentioned as well. And of course, there are LGBTI and trans women who are also vulnerable and in danger within those groups.

Did you feel like there was a receptiveness to discussing the problems afro-descendant and Indigenous people face here in terms of racism?

In INADI there seemed to be a willingness, an openness, to discuss it. But as I pointed out, for instance, when we brought up the issue of the questions put in the last population census and the procedures – and I asked for copies of the questions to be sent to us because we wished to analyze them and make recommendations – we came away with a feeling of an intent and interest in moving the agenda forward for afro-descendants to enjoy their human rights. But yet there was still, let’s say, a room full of people who are white, and one Black woman who works in one of the organizations, and that is not enough! 

I made that clear: the afro-descendant communities, population, and Indigenous must be involved in the formulation of all the procedures and processes, as well as the content of the questions, how they’re formulated. They must be part of that from the beginning. All the stages to the end. With regard to the census specifically, but in all decision-making levels of the country.

We’ve sometimes seen journalists getting abuse online when they bring up issues of racism in Argentina, and often the gist of the comments is that it’s a US problem that doesn’t happen here. 

Only fools keep their blinders on and refuse to see when things are obvious. I’m sorry, whoever this is, I tell them, if you don’t want to see, you’re a fool, especially when you’re dealing with your own country and what’s happening there.

Thank you so much!

This interview was conducted prior to the police crackdown on protesters in Jujuy. It has been lightly edited for length and clarity – Herald note